How are the Yellowstone wolves doing today?

They're doing so much better than our wildest dreams. It's really remarkable. Nobody anticipated how quickly the Yellowstone population would grab hold and really start producing animals.

In the Northern Rockies area where you have the three connected populations, we have probably somewhere between 500 to 650. Right now is kind of a difficult time [to count], because the wolves have had their pups, so you don't know how many of the pups are going to survive into the fall.

What's happening with the plans to move the wolf off the endangered species list, and into state management?

In Montana and Idaho, the state game and fish departments have come up with plans that both conservationists and the federal government feel protect wolves, and at the same time are flexible enough to address conflicts. In the state of Wyoming, however, if it weren't so serious, it would be comical, because the state Legislature is just utterly apoplectic about this issue. They refuse to change the legal status of the wolf in the state of Wyoming from a predator to a game animal or a protected animal. Any animal that is a predator in the state of Wyoming can be killed on sight without any questions.

So, the state is now suing the federal government because they [the state] essentially say that the status of wolves has reached the point at which the state should be able to take over the management of wolves. But it's written clearly in the Endangered Species Act that management will only be handed over to the state when the state comes up with a plan that ensures the survival and protected status of wolves.

Politically, it's an interesting time in Wyoming. A lot of these people anticipated that the feds -- given that it's a not-so-conservation-minded administration -- would just roll over on this. You've got Cheney, who used to be a congressman from Wyoming, and all these people lined up who are not necessarily unsympathetic.

But the word came down that Bush is not going to take what the nation perceives as one of the biggest conservation victories of the last five decades and jeopardize it in an election year so the state of Wyoming can have its wolf-shooting contest. It's just a very bizarre situation.

What do you think the reaction of the Wyoming Legislature means?

It saddens me because one of the things that you hope is that there will be a kind of cultural enlightenment as a result of the reintroduction of the wolf. Yet in 2004 in the Wyoming state Legislature, grown men are crying and wailing about what wolves did to their great-grandfather's ranch. In one way, it's fascinating. In another it's just a sad example of how slowly cultural changes are made. There's no doubt in my mind that the Yellowstone wolves will be protected, and the state of Wyoming will not be effective in jeopardizing the survival of that population. But I do think that we still may see another cultural war take place.

One representative was talking on the floor of the state Legislature about how under these rules, "we can't go down and bomb the dens." Under the federal rules that were being suggested, you couldn't use this barbaric technique of basically bombing and smoking, essentially suffocating, the pups in the den.

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