Did I see somewhere that L.L. Cool J had endorsed Gov. George Pataki, while Russell Simmons endorsed the Democrat, Carl McCall?

Yeah, Russell Simmons is on our exploratory committee. Cool J and I are friends. Jay Z's got me in his CD, where he was denied some apartment, and he says, "Don't make me go get Sharpton." I was in "Mr. Deeds." When I spoke at Howard University last night, one student got up and said, "You're the only civil rights leader I know. I know Jesse Jackson. I know you."

But a lot of people who know you don't necessarily have a positive association with you.

Well, every candidate has baggage. You don't think when Gore comes back they won't start talking about the Buddhist temple and all these other things? You know, a guy stopped me at an airport in San Francisco not long ago. He said, "I don't agree with everything you do." But he said, "I don't know that I could go into the booth and vote against you, because you have shown the consistency and sacrifice that I don't see in others." And I don't think people understand that, in fact I hope they don't. I hope they underestimate us to the degree that they'll wake up one day and understand that this is a lot more serious than personality. People are tired of being marginalized.

Of course, no one gives you a chance.

People will be surprised that there are a lot of progressive whites who will support me because of my antiwar populist message. I could not have gotten 33 percent of the New York City mayoral primary vote without getting white votes.

But the Democratic nominee, Ruth Messinger, went on to lose that race. So is your run an attempt to get the party to take some notice of some of these issues, even if you don't win?

Those of us that supported Jesse, we got Ron Brown as the chairman of the party. We got Doug Wilder elected governor of Virginia, eventually Sen. Carol Mosley Braun [D-Ill.]. Mayor Dinkins in New York. Changed the platform, got [the African National Congress] and [Nelson] Mandela on the national platform. We won a lot losing with Jesse. People who supported [Gary] Hart or [John] Glenn or Mondale got nothing. They weren't engaged in democracy, they were playing the lotto. They put their money on the winner, and if you don't win, you lose everything. I'm practicing democracy saying we can win it all, or win in increments. But it's about winning in terms of where you want the country to go.

There has been a lot written about the new generation of more moderate black leaders, people like Rep. Harold Ford Jr., D-Tenn, who is 32; Ron Kirk, 48, in Texas, Cory Booker, 33, in New Jersey. Do you think too much is made of that?

I think the media's going to wake up and realize it didn't happen. Cory Booker lost. You can't keep saying there's new leaders if the people aren't following. He lost. Sharpe James [who defeated Booker] said I was a big reason why Booker did lose, and Cory Booker's a lot closer to me generation-wise than Sharpe James. I'm in their generation. [James is 65, Sharpton is 48.]

Harold Ford called me and asked me to support him for minority leader. I told him, "Have you got the right Al? This isn't Gore, this is Sharpton." But he lost. When we look at the so-called moderate leadership, where have they won? In the races of [Rep. Earl] Hilliard, D-Ala., and [Rep Cynthia] McKinney, D-Ga. [who both lost to more moderate black opponents], you've got to remember those are races where Republicans voted in the Democratic primary. So you can't say that's a shift in black leadership. If those weren't open primaries, you don't know what would have happened. Don't forget, Hilliard won the primary, he lost the runoff.

The party has not shown a significant support base for any of the black leaders. You couldn't get more party loyalist, more paper-perfect résumés, than Ron Kirk and Carl McCall. They lost double digits, and many people thought the party didn't really get behind them. Terry McAuliffe comes to New York two weeks before the election, gets on the front page of the New York Times and says, McCall can't win.

We still have not proven that this party is inclusive.

Do you see the rise of Pelosi as a sign that the party is moving left?

I do. I think the intoxication with the DLC is about over. I think Pelosi's win says that. And I think Gore is the face of the DLC. Let's not forget, Gore and Clinton, that's who they were, and it hasn't worked.

But Clinton had strong black support.

Absolutely. But I think it was overestimated in 2002, that he could energize the base. If there were other things going on, he could have been a great force. But to just have him out there and nothing else, it was a great disservice to him.

So are you going to be calling Harold Ford and ask him to support you?

No. I think Harold will be with Gore, but I think Harold will be respectful.

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