Where the New Democrats went wrong

If Gore said to you, "Look, Gary, the only way I can get elected is to move to the right," how would you respond?

I disagree, I disagree. Prove the case. That's what Dick Morris would tell him. Or (Democratic Leadership Council chairman) Al From. But I just disagree.

What case would you make to him that he's wrong?

I would say half the voters out there are waiting to hear some new message that's courageous and bold and truthful, and that alienates the powerful interests. And that indicates that you're going to govern in a bolder and more experimental way.

Some people say Gore is more progressive than he appears. But he's afraid to be who he really is because he fears losing his electability, that that's why he's so stiff.

I have no idea if that's true. I can't peek inside his head. All I can say is that if somebody doesn't know who they are, or hasn't resolved fundamental core issues of their own character and principles, they shouldn't run for president.

What was it like for you on a personal level to raise money for your various campaigns?

I hated it, I hated it.

What did you hate about it?

Because it was an act of ego. It was saying, "Give me money." If I asked for people's energy, time, money, I always put it in terms of the effort or the cause, because that's the way I thought of what I was doing. I mean, I'm so different from Bill Clinton here. He likes to go in a room and say "Give me money, give me money!" He likes it! I can't do that, I'd say "give my campaign money," or "we need your help" or something. I thought the system was becoming corrupt. I said that, and I made it a campaign issue. It was like a premonition in a way. It was just the beginning. I had an administrative assistant my first term in the Senate, to illustrate the point. He said that by the time he left in 1980 it was routine in Washington that no interest group came to any member of Congress' office without leaving a check, an envelope with the administrative assistant, which was legal under the rules. You couldn't give it to anyone else but the A.A.. They'd just go in, make their case and on the way out toss this check: "Here's to the Senator's reelection." I had no idea. And he said "You were the last guy in Washington not to do that." He said I had guys, Tommy Boggs and others, who said "Of course, we want to contribute to the Senator's reelection race." And he said, no, no, no, he doesn't do that. And it made them mad. It made them mad. So that was the beginning. And I think I was beginning to feel so teeth-grating about it, that I didn't like it. I was not looking forward to the 1988 race in part because of that.

You always seemed uncomfortable in fundraising situations.

Oh, that was all right. I mean, I'd been through two Senate races. But the rap on me was "cool and aloof." Well, I was shy, I wasn't a back-slapping type of politician. And I used to go in a room, and put my back to the wall, and people would come around. And the press would say he's never going to make it. Well, there was something about that that people liked, that I didn't play the game.

Do you think the public's reaction to the impeachment scandal implies that the public has grown up on sexual matters?

I don't think the public ever was not grown up. The public always separated the private from the public, always understood the difference between what's interesting and what's important. The press people will say, "Yeah, but look, they gobbled it up, they watched the programs, they read the newspapers." Of course. It's interesting. But do they think it's important? No. They make that distinction. The press doesn't make that distinction. If it's interesting, it's important, because they're interested in selling; they're selling stuff. I know there's this theory that we've gone through an evolutionary cycle. I don't think the people have changed, but the press probably has. I think the press learned from the Clinton incident that there's a tolerable limit. They're now beginning to figure out where they can go with that.

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