You're a member of the Democratic Leadership Council, right?

Uh, yeah, I guess so. I don't know.

It lists you as a member. And you know, that tag -- centrist Democrat, New Democrat, DLC -- inspires a lot of groaning from folks farther to the left. How would you respond to those who say that Kerry lost because he didn't provide a stark enough contrast to Bush, that the party needs someone more like Dean as its standard-bearer?

Well, that's not where the country is.

But 57 percent of the country now thinks the war in Iraq was a mistake.

You know, that's today. That's certainly not [how it was in] the beginning of 2004. We know more today than we did in 2004. And we are [in Iraq], and whether it was a mistake or not is somewhat academic. We certainly can't leave until the job gets done. I mean, if the United States were to pull out now, we would have absolute chaos, and all the parents and spouses of the 1,500-plus young men and women who have given their lives would certainly be able to question whether their sacrifices were worth it.

To be fair, that's Dean's view as well -- that the United States can't pull out now.

I don't think it's about contrast [with regard to Kerry vs. Bush]. I think people are troubled today by the pace of change. I think they're insecure; I think they're nervous, and with some justification, because things are constantly changing. What Democrats have to express to people is that we understand their frustration and their insecurity, and we are going to help deal with it. We're going to work hard to restore the American promise. We're going to rebuild the confidence that people have in the notion that the next generation can indeed have it better.

And here's how we're going to do it. We're going to transform the economy, recognizing that we have to have a different kind of economy than the one we have today. We're going to come up with an energy policy that ensures that no one dies for oil. We'll become more independent from an energy standpoint by utilizing the tools and the opportunities that God gave us, whether it's wind or solar or hydropower, or opportunities that grow from the ground, renewable fuels. We're going to transform the economy by having an education system that isn't about a bumper-sticker philosophy but about investing in quality in the classroom.

We have to address the healthcare crisis by approaching healthcare in the way that governors are approaching government -- by looking for and eliminating inefficiencies and waste. I've seen studies that suggest that as much as 30 or 40 percent of our healthcare costs are simply in pushing paper. Have we given a great deal of thought to how we can best utilize the nurses, the nurse practitioners, the support personnel? Have we looked at their scope of practice to ensure that they are given as much latitude and opportunity [as possible] to save money?

There are many things we can and ought to do, but Democrats have also got to give people an understanding that we have a plan -- that we know that they're frustrated and insecure, and we're going to address that.

You're saying that you've got to make people feel more secure, and less like the world is changing on them, all while persuading them to vote for a change in the party that's controlling their government. That's a tough trick to pull off, isn't it?

The way you do it is by suggesting that we are in a fierce competition, one unlike any we've ever seen. We have to stimulate the competitive juices in Americans. When Russia put up the Sputnik back when I was a kid, the competitive juices started to flow, and we decided that we were going to beat them to the moon. Well, we are now in a global economy, and to preserve the standard of living that we have in this country, we have got to win the competition -- by being innovative and creative and by coming up with ideas that nobody else has thought of. I think Americans can do that. I think they're looking for leadership that will inspire them to do that. It will require creative approaches to how much we spend on various aspects of government.

Do you think that having you on the ticket would have made a difference in 2004?

[Laughs, with a long pause.] Boy, that's a tough question to answer. Let me put it this way: I've never lost a race. And the reason is in part because I have a wonderful spouse who is a great campaigner. I know that we would have given every ounce of energy to Kerry and to Kerry's team. I don't know what the outcome would have been. And, really, it doesn't make much difference at the end of the day. John Edwards is a great guy; Elizabeth Edwards is a great woman. They did their best, and they just came up short.

Edwards sort of disappeared once he was on the ticket.

Well, we saw a lot of him in Iowa.

You saw a lot of everyone in Iowa, but Bush still won the state. What will it take to turn around Iowa and the rest of the heartland?

I was at the White House Correspondents Association dinner [last month], and I was sitting close to [Republican National Committee chairman] Ken Mehlman. I leaned over during Laura Bush's performance and indicated to him that the reason Bush won Iowa, in my view, taking nothing away from the president and his team, was Laura Bush. She did a terrific job campaigning for her husband in Iowa. She went to communities that were on the outskirts of the major metropolitan areas in our state (where the major media would cover her) and sent the message that small towns and small-town values were important to the Bush administration.

Iowans want to know that you understand the trials and tribulations and struggles and aspirations and hopes and dreams of ordinary folks, and that you're going to work hard and do your level best to make a better life for them and their families. That's why I think I won the governor's race in '98 and why I was one of the few folks reelected in 2002.

It sounds like you've internalized a bit of Thomas Frank.

I don't know if I have or not. But I know what I believe, and I believe strongly in this concept of the American promise. I was thinking about it the other day. My father was not a very successful business guy. I remember the last time I talked to him, on April 14, 1972. I called him from college to let him know that I had been accepted to law school. He had just suffered a stroke and wearily explained to me that he wasn't sure where the money would come from but he'd find a way to help pay for law school. Two days later, he passed away.

Veterans benefits, Social Security benefits, student loans, my work, Christie's work -- all were part of how I was able to get myself through law school. But my father sacrificed just about everything he had to give me this educational opportunity, which in turn gave me opportunities to be a lawyer, to have success in that profession, to raise my family adequately, and then to get into politics. That's what this is all about. And if I can do it, starting out life in an orphanage, anybody can do it.

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