Talbot: Why are these conservative groups helping you then?

Nader: Because they're mischievous, that's why! They want to get their name in the paper and trick people like Salon.

Talbot: They're mischievous because they think they can sabotage the Kerry campaign...

Nader: But they haven't done it, they haven't done it.

Talbot: ...by helping you.

Nader: What about the Democrats hiring three corporate law firms to harass us and drive us off the Arizona ballot? Does that bother you? In other words, what you don't like are Republicans getting us on the ballot so we can express our free speech.

Talbot: I don't support any effort to block you from legally getting on a state ballot.

Nader: All right. And are you telling them about the Republicans helping the Democrats? Do you know that the top... tell him, Kevin.

Zeese: The most recent numbers are 25 percent of Bush's supporters are also supporting Kerry.

Talbot: And why are they doing that?

Zeese: Because they're corporate paymasters! They're buying access...

Talbot: They're buying access to Kerry -- a man you have met with and honored, and said he's significantly better than Al Gore. But the reason they're giving money to you is not to buy access -- it's to keep Bush, a man you say [has been a disaster for the country], in the White House.

Nader: This is ridiculous. You're treating Republicans like they're all criminals. Did you ever hear of Republicans who might work with us on issues over the years, who might believe in civil liberties even though they might prefer a Republican ticket?

Talbot: Look, you and I know that those kinds of Republicans are few and far between. And I challenge you to show me that the bulk of this money you're getting from conservatives is meant to advance the cause of American consumers. I just don't believe that. And if that's not the case, why is your own running mate, Peter Camejo, saying that you should give back this money?

Nader: Ask him now. Look, why are you so concerned about a tiny fraction of our support in our humble attempt to go past $1 million? Most of our money is under $100 [per contribution].

Talbot: They're not just giving money. These conservative groups are working behind the scenes to get you on state ballots. You're basically saying it's all right to work with the devil, Ralph, because you've lost your perspective.

Nader: OK, now I've flushed you out. Now you've come out. I'm an expert in flushing out bias, prejudice and prejudgment. And you've demonstrated all three. Until you go after the Democrats for obstructing us with dirty tricks and using both Republican and Democratic money -- they used a Republican law firm, by the way, among their three law firms -- until you're even-handed, I will declare you hopelessly prejudiced.

Talbot: Well, we're obviously not going to sort this all out here. But I would like to sit down with you and have a formal interview.

Nader: You have already interviewed me. You have already prejudged me. You have already indicated your predisposition. And you have lied.

Talbot: How have I lied?

Nader: On the anti-gay thing: That's a declared lie. You want to explain it to him, Kevin?

Zeese: The obvious thing is that Ralph stands for strong issues on gay rights.

Talbot: But you are working with groups that are opposed to gay rights.

Zeese: We're not working with them at all.

Talbot: What agenda do you share with the Reform Party?

Zeese: Oh my God. Have you looked at their platform? They're against the war, they're for repealing the Patriot Act...

Talbot: Are you with them on abortion rights and immigration?

Nader: Not on immigration...

Zeese: We're running on Ralph's agenda, not the Reform Party's. We made that clear to the Reform Party. We do not kowtow to everything they wanted. We said, endorse us if you want to -- that's your choice. But we have an 85 percent area of agreement.

Nader: We're not going to play the fascist game of the two-party monopoly barricading itself from any competition, with all kinds of statutory obstruction that cost third parties immense time and money if they can surmount them. This is a dictatorship, which you don't seem to understand...

Talbot: I...

Nader: I've got another phone call, I've got to go. Bye-bye.

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