I have said for over two and a half years that no one has been held accountable for 9/11. No one lost his or her job, not [CIA Director] George Tenet, not [FBI Director] Robert Mueller, not anybody. Now this is the president who claims to be strong and tough, but he clearly does not have on his desk a sign that says, "The buck stops here." I honor Dick Clarke for what he said to the victims' families. I think George Bush should say that, I think he should apologize. I think he should take responsibility, as John Kennedy did after the Bay of Pigs. That's presidential leadership, that's a strong president. This is a weak president. He will not take responsibility.

In Kennedy's case, he was clearly misled by his national security advisors who were bound and determined to go ahead with their Cuban adventure.

And he fired some of them. None of that happened here. You know why I think George Tenet is still in his job? I think there are smoking guns all over the White House. I think if you crack the White House safe, you're going to find memos from Tenet saying, "The terrorists are coming, the terrorists are coming."

So you think the intelligence community was giving Bush information he should have acted on before 9/11?

Precisely. And that's the only explanation I can think of for why no one's been fired. Which leaves open the possibility that the president misled the American people.

Clearly there are a number of intelligence professionals who are not happy with this administration and the way it has politicized the intelligence process. Do you sense there's a growing restiveness in that community against Bush?

Oh, absolutely. And here's how it works. Career intelligence officers are in constant touch with their colleagues who are retired. And I believe the vast majority of those people are honorable, oath-taking, straight-talking professionals who love their country. But, as with any other human beings, when pushed too far -- by being blamed for something they didn't do or being unfairly held out to ridicule for not doing their job -- they will do what most human beings will do. They will fight back. They will have lunch with one of their colleagues, and they will say, "Let me bring you up to date," and they will give chapter and verse on what the White House and the CIA did and did not do. And they have the understanding that their retired colleague may very well have lunch with somebody from the New York Times. You can say this is shameful or disloyal -- but for these people, who have given their lives to their country, if they think that our political leadership is not protecting the country, they're going to do something about it. Their loyalty is not to George W. Bush -- their loyalty is to the flag of the United States of America.

So a growing number of intelligence and security professionals like Clarke, Joe Wilson and Karen Kwiatkowski are getting fed up with the Bush administration and are doing something about it?

I think that's true. And I think Karl Rove is taking a huge risk. I think since 9/11 they've been walking a very fine line, between wanting to put the blame on the CIA and knowing if they did so unjustifiably, they're going to get whacked. And I think that's exactly what this little dance is about, and I think that's why they did not fire Tenet. They want him and those who work for him not to retaliate.

Has the war in Iraq increased our security in the U.S.?

Absolutely not -- it's increased our vulnerability. It's helped with terrorist recruitment, the spawning of cells in various countries. Don't take my word for it -- that's what the security authorities have said. The directors of the CIA, FBI and DIA have all warned that when America attacks an Arab state, the risk to America skyrockets, it doesn't go down. Now Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle have said we're safer, of course -- the more we keep them on the run abroad, the safer we are at home. I think that's just patent nonsense.

If Bush has not made us safer, why hasn't there been another terrorist attack in the U.S.? Have we just been lucky?

No, we have made it somewhat more difficult. But my analogy is that when I got Secret Service protection during my presidential run in 1984, the head of the Secret Service said to me, "If someone wants to kill you, they will probably kill you. Our job is to make it as difficult as possible." So nearly three years later, we are making it somewhat more difficult for terrorists. Are we making it as difficult as we can? The answer is no.

The first attack on the World Trade Center occurred almost two years after its triggering event, which was the stationing of American troops in Saudi Arabia. Of course that barracks subsequently got blown up. So when people say, "Gee whiz, we must be safe, we haven't been attacked again," well, these enemies we're confronting are patient people.

What would it take for the American people to begin to doubt that Bush has made them safer?

Well, God forbid, another attack, and I don't rule that out. I know we're going to be attacked again.

Do you think that terrorists learned from Spain that they can affect the outcome of a presidential election?

I think they'd be wrong to assume that about this nation. And I think they'd be dead wrong to assume they'd be better off with a Kerry administration. John Kerry is not soft on terrorism.

Do you think there's ever a role for unilateral American action?

Of course.

But Iraq did not meet the proper criteria?

Right. The global rules for nations throughout history have been pretty consistent: a threat must be immediate and unavoidable. Iraq was neither. If someone knocks on your door, and you've been robbed before, you're not justified in blowing that person away simply because you're afraid. The same is true of nations.

Will the nonexistent weapons of mass destruction come back to haunt Bush in November?

I think what will haunt this administration is its lack of accountability. Either George Bush was misled, which is his story, or he misled the American people. There are no other choices. If he's a strong president, as he and his supporters claim, then heads should roll. If the president of the United States is misled by those who advise him, heads should roll. And we have not seen this. If he misled the American people, then he must go.

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