The exorcist

Well the whole conflict between science and religion is ridiculous and shouldn't exist. I believe that psychiatry and religion, instead of the enemies they are and have been for 350 years, are natural friends and ought to work together. For example, psychiatry can tell you a great deal about how to get rid of obstacles in your path but doesn't say much about what path to take. Religion doesn't say much about removing obstacles but can say what path to take.

As for creationism vs. evolution, creationism is ridiculous if you're going to say that everything was created in six days and that it happened 7,000 years ago. On the other side of the coin, it is quite astonishing that in Genesis I the sequence of creation is exactly the sequence in which creation evolved; I see no conflict there. The problem scientists have is admitting that God had anything to do with creation. I believe God was deeply involved in the creation, but he was involved -- or she was involved -- over the course of millions of years.

So what were the symptoms of the two patients you treated for possession that convinced you that there was more than mental illness in play?

Possession is a rare phenomenon and is related to evil, but possessed people are not actually evil; they are doing battle with the forces of evil. I am getting old and this is my last book and I felt I had an obligation to record these two cases in which I was involved. I felt it would be a sin to go to my grave leaving them untold and wanted them told as scientifically as possible.

These were not cases of standard psychopathology. I stumbled on the first case not thinking I would find signs [of possession] because I wanted to scientifically prove that the devil did not exist. But the evidence I found defied my belief and I ended up being converted.

In the first case after talking with [Jersey] for three hours and talking with her family, I felt that she was a bit overly dramatic and naive, symptoms of hysteria. I found her pressured in speech and that she had some odd ideas, which would go along with schizophrenia. And so thinking that a combination of schizophrenia and hysteria fit a borderline personality disorder, I was already mentally packing my bags to leave. But after three hours of talking about her demons she said, "I feel sorry for them." That stopped me in my tracks. I said, "What do you mean?" And she said, "They're such weak and pathetic creatures." And this caused me to prick up my ears, because thinking in terms of standard psychodynamics, if someone wanted to make up demons they'd want to make up strong, hairy demons, not weak, pathetic ones. As I would later discover, within cases of possession, it's a common phenomenon [for demons] to try and lull their victim into thinking he or she doesn't have much to be afraid of.

Then, as in the later case with Beccah, as time went on there were other pieces that didn't fit, and I began to think they might be signs of possession and so explored it more. It's not a diagnosis one can make instantly or should make instantly. In one case it took about seven months and in the other it was about nine months from the time we first began to consider a diagnosis of possession until we felt sure enough to go ahead with an exorcism, which is a massive therapeutic onslaught equivalent to brain surgery or open-heart surgery.

Before the exorcisms for both Jersey and Beccah, you performed deliverances. What is the difference between deliverance and exorcism?

Deliverance is a brief procedure and a gentle one that can be done without restraints. It should be done with at least two people and can be done in the course of an afternoon. It's very quiet and peaceful, mostly people just praying, and as the delivery progresses it becomes obvious that there is a problem that sometimes can be taken care of, as it was temporarily in Beccah's case, by simply identifying some kind of demonic presence and ordering it out. It's all very peaceful and easy and simple. One authority, Dr. Francis MacNutt, who is very responsible in this area, makes a distinction between oppression and possession. Oppression is like a city where the enemy has gotten hold of a couple of suburbs but does not in any way control the whole city. As far as possession, he describes it as a city where the city center and the radio stations and roadways have all been captured by the enemy, and you need a massive onslaught to get the enemy out of there, and that's an exorcism.

In an exorcism the No. 1 exorcist ultimately is the patient himself or herself. The successful end of exorcism, the expulsion of the demon, occurs only when a patient chooses to sever his or her relation with the demonic. There are four levels of things going on in exorcism and the most important factor is the patient's choice. The second is, I believe, that God literally comes into the room and helps out. The kind of change the patient makes is so radical that I'm not sure it can be accomplished without the assistance of God. The third is the team [of assistants] that operates as a community, something which the patient and the demonic have perhaps never experienced. The fourth is the exorcist himself -- or hopefully herself, one of these days -- who is crucial to success since it is he who makes the diagnosis and gathers the team together.

So I gather from your last response that there are no female exorcists?

I do not know of one and do not know of any reason there should not be one.

Next Page: Are patients at risk for death during exorcisms?

• View blog reactions