Because you speak out so strongly against Bush on the album, do you worry about any kind of backlash from Clear Channel, the chain that owns so many radio stations and seems to be so conservative?

(Laughs.) Yeah, like Clear Channel are really going to play me! That's really funny. I thought that you meant it seriously but of course you don't. You've got to be ironic. I'm so far away from the possibility of Clear Channel ever playing me. I have moved from the Straits to the most remote recesses of where art is or where art can exist. The possibility of me ever becoming a mainstream artist now so escapes my consciousness I can't even begin to think about it. I'm playing tomorrow night to 130 people. This isn't Clear Channel territory.

I don't care about the great monoliths. To me it's all the same thing as the Halliburtons and the Monsantos. Clear Channel is just another great, horrible conglom that cares about the money. It doesn't interest me. All that shit is the devil's courtyard. Anything that George Bush or the big corporations are interested in are the devil's courtyard. Don't go there. If you get caught playing in the devil's courtyard, sooner or later you have to make a Faustian pact and sooner or later you'll have to pay for that pact. I just don't go there. I leave it alone. I work in the margins. The margins are where you'll find the nice people. You'll find real friends. You'll find honesty. You'll find integrity. You'll find relationships that will last you for a lifetime and will be there to support you in the bad times, which are the only relationships that matter anyway. Relationships that are all about power and money aren't worth having.

Do you find that because of the conglomerates and the Clear Channels and the Viacoms, there are fewer niches for an artist like you?

They think that they know where the ballpark is, but if the public don't turn up and don't buy the tickets and don't show up for the game, what have they got? No one's listening to their radio stations. They're actually in big trouble because they can't fool the people forever. People are going elsewhere and buying independent records. They're going to independent stores. They don't want to drink their coffee in Starbucks anymore. They're looking for independent coffee shops. The radio stations that the students are playing music in are better stations. Every action produces a reaction, so I'm not worried about them. Martin Luther King only had a fan base of three when he started. Gandhi was only minding his own business when he took a walk to get some salt and ended up overthrowing the British Empire. You can't set out to overthrow an empire, but if you have to get some salt then get some salt. If you have to write some independent songs that are honest, just write them. If you have to do a day job stacking shelves, so be it. I could go back to social work tomorrow and enjoy it. I loved being a social worker. It wouldn't give me any sense of loss at all to be helping people for a living.

How is the music industry different now than it was in the 1970s?

It's a lot tougher if you want to make it. The record companies now are talking about million-dollar budgets. When a major wants to sign a new artist they budget a million dollars because of the marketing that it requires to get noticed. They need to bang people over the heads very loudly with very large hammers until their ears bleed. It's become a very expensive operation.

I noticed when I went into Tower Records last week in Nashville that the No. 1 album in there was Warren Zevon's album. It's ironic, really, that you have to die to get there but there he was. Warren spent his whole life never going anywhere near it. He had "Werewolves of London," but he basically never went anywhere near the charts with anything he did. "My Shit's Fucked Up" is one of the best songs that he ever wrote. One of the best songs ever written by anybody. A sublime little song that probably nobody knows about. If you're making good work, does it matter if you're selling 50 copies or 50 million? I would say to any young artist who's making the work just to enjoy the work.

Now you're going out on the road in support of "Wishbones" and playing shows in more modest venues. Is there ever a moment of sympathy for those Sultans of Swing that you're so tired of -- the characters in that song?

I'm one of those characters now. I've almost grown into the role, haven't I? I've been sliding down the pole since 1980 since I left the band. There's not a great bit of difference between what my band did playing to 300 people and a pub band. We're almost in the same league. I don't think I'm a celebrity. I've got more time for the guy driving my taxi than I've got for myself quite often.

Recent Stories