"Songwriting saved my life"

Have you started working on that opera?

I take jabs here and there -- definitely after this series of records, the first and second ones, and then these two ["Want One" and "Want Two"]. They're so centered around my personal life and my interior struggles, or my views on the world, that I would just love to work on something that is completely apart from my own life. An opera will be natural for me, because I do think that my life has been operatic, and I do view the world in very dramatic terms.

I'm always so shocked how few musicians make use of classical references. There's so much there. I mean, like a thousand years of music there that's really brilliant. I'm shocked by how little it's used.

Do you listen primarily to classical music?

I do. Mostly opera, and some symphonies. I'm still pretty entrenched.

How far did you get as a classical pianist?

I studied the piano for years, and I went to a conservatory, but I was always at the bottom of my class. I like to keep it that way, not to get too proficient in classical music, so I can always keep that awe of it, and that respect.

Do you still play classical stuff on the piano? Like for yourself?

I know a few little pieces. I'm really into Berlioz right now.

Actually, Berlioz reminds me of your music, in that it can seem so bombastic on the surface, but when it works it actually becomes very intimate, despite all the orchestral fireworks.

Well, I'd like to see a connection there! If you see one, then I see one too. I love Berlioz so much. For one thing, he really revolutionized the orchestra. The other thing I love about him is that he always wore his heart on his sleeve, in terms of his dire passion for culture and art. I really miss people like that in the pop world today. I don't see a lot of people who are about to slit their throat for the perfect chord or something.

Yep, you're all alone on that one. You haven't mentioned Chopin in any interviews I've seen, which surprised me. Is he not full-blooded enough for you?

I have a distinct memory, as a really young boy, maybe around 7 or 8, discovering Chopin and listened to him for hours on end in my mother's bedroom. Probably, from years of failed piano lessons, I sort of shied away from that. Honestly, I think he's incredible, but it can get a little schlocky. The one who I love right now who is schlocky but who I find amazing is Tchaikovsky. I'm a big Tchaikovsky fan.

So Verdi, Berlioz, Wagner, Bellini, Tchaikovsky. Quite the Romantic lineup.

Yeah, but I love a lot of the older ones too. Rameau, Massenet.

In the contemporary classical world, though, the kind of high Romanticism that you favor is kind of out of fashion. If the current classical scene were less minimalist or spectralist or whatever, would you consider getting more heavily involved in it?

Definitely. I'm more attracted to the classical world when it was a real popular art form, when it had a real connection to everyday people, and when it was about hits. I certainly admire a lot of contemporary classical composers, like Arvo Pärt or Gorecki or David Diamond. But really, I just like a good tune, in the end.

So how is "Want Two" going to be different from "Want One"?

I wanted at least the first part of this project to make it into Wal-Mart, and not have any major strikes against it. Mostly it has to do with subject matter. "Want Two" has a song called "Gay Messiah" and another one called "An Old Whore's Diet." So it's a little racier, a little darker. I feel almost like I've led people up to a cliff. Very operatic in that way. But still, all these songs were written and recorded in the same period.

Did you originally want to release them as a double album?

Originally that was my idea, but now I'm very happy with this approach. I don't want to burden the listener with too much Rufessence.

You talk about wanting to get the CD into Wal-Mart. How important is real pop-star success to you at this point?

Well, I think it's more of a game that I'd like to win. Because I do believe in the duty of an artist to improve culture for the populace. And I do find that right now there's just not enough edification going on, or enough variety. There are no choices out there anymore for kids. But I used to take it a lot more personally. Now I don't take it personally at all. And for this project, mainly considering my age -- I mean, I'm 30, which is pushing it for a pop star -- I really feel like it's now or never in that whole realm. But in terms of whether I make it or don't make it in that realm, there are other, bigger issues in my life.

You have worked with three fairly distinctive producers, but the albums all come out sounding like you. I expected the new album to be filled with all the little electronic sounds Marius de Vries likes to use, but there are relatively few of them.

Marius is a true producer in the sense that he produces the album that the artist wants to make. He had no qualms with me bringing in an orchestra, or whatever I wanted to do. I fought against producers for the first two albums, only because it's my natural leaning to chart out the recording studio as if it was Belgium and I was Napoleon. But Marius was really excited about all the things I had to bring to the table, which makes him a really great producer. He could work with any artist, I think.

Let's talk about Levon Helm [drummer from The Band] and Charlie Sexton [guitarist from Bob Dylan's band], who are on this album. They're sort of like red herrings, aren't they? Their presence was heavily publicized, and it seemed like a sign that you were going to go a bit folk-rock. But Helm plays on just one track, and even though Sexton is on much of the album, it's not very guitar heavy. It's even less folkie than what you've done before.

With Levon Helm, first and foremost he's one of the greatest living drummers, but also he does live in Woodstock [N.Y.], and we were recording there, so he was around, so it made perfect sense. With Charlie Sexton, what happened is that I had originally been thinking of doing this record with just a band. And then I went to see Dylan in Newport when he went electric -- I mean, the 30th anniversary of when he went electric. And Charlie Sexton was in his band. And I originally thought that maybe I would use Dylan's band. You know, just let him do all the work for me. It didn't work out that way, but I knew that Charlie Sexton was a big fan of mine, and needless to say he's easy on the eyes. It gets cold up there in Woodstock!

Last question: Was it weird having your mom sing backup on a Nick Cave album? Are you a fan?

I love Nick Cave. I'm sort of Nick Cave's good twin brother. We looked very similar at one point, when my hair was long. There was a striking resemblance. Together we're like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

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