My thing with him is that...

Well, he does horrible things. And he's very selfish, but I mean, I always just think of that little boy being unable to sleep because of all the dead bodies in the basement.

Well, and I suppose that we're the most self-righteous about people when we recognize the things in them we fear the most in ourselves.

Right! I mean, we're all narcissists. [Laughs.] I don't think it's possible to iron narcissism out 100 percent, especially in this culture we live in, which is all about, "Hey, personal fulfillment, no matter what! It's possible! It could happen to you -- it should happen to you! Look at all these people it's happening to. You can buy it!" I think it's very difficult and it requires a tremendous amount of spiritual integrity and discipline to not be a narcissist in a culture that encourages it every step of the way. And when you throw in some sort of childhood trauma that is not linked to one particular event, but is just a sense of dread and mystery and a distant father and a suffering mother that's ingrained in you from day one ... You know, I think Nate's admirable. I think it's kind of a miracle that he's not a drug addict or an alcoholic or that he hasn't gotten himself killed or something.

It's the point where he injures another person with his idealism that bothers me.

Exactly, and that's why he's so interesting to me, because he's not just a movie villain who's evil and enjoys the suffering of others. He's deeply aware of the suffering of others.

And yet he's able to indulge himself in ways that create suffering.

Well, he just has the wrong idea of what's going to make him happy. He feels that happiness comes from someone or something outside of himself.

So he changes his circumstances over and over trying to find the right thing.

Yeah, hoping, "OK, this is my escape. I finally found the right person, or the right situation." And you know, that is a lesson that a lot of people never quite get, that it [happiness] doesn't come from outside.

And the explanation of what's wrong is projected onto others.

Yeah. "The reason I'm unhappy is because I'm in a bad marriage. The reason I'm unhappy is because this person doesn't understand me."

Well, if you go out with enough people, like I have, eventually you start to notice a pattern!

Right! [Laughs] At some point, no matter who it is, you're going to drive each other crazy.

Yeah, the hedge and the bamboo are exactly the same thing, all you can do is pick the one that's nicer to look at. Still, it's funny how Nate is such a conduit for our feelings about ourselves. Any character that can make you that angry ... And I had a friend who told me that she was depressed for weeks after Lisa died.

Most people really wanted her to die!

Yeah, I was thrilled when she disappeared, personally. And I loved the fact that she turned out to be kind of secretly...

Kind of a neurotic slut.

Yeah! And of course Brenda makes people really angry, too.

I know. People despised Brenda during the second season, and now everybody says, "Oh, poor Brenda!" All in such a short period. And I think, "You know what? That's like life!" I have relatives who once said, "Oh your Uncle Blahblah treats your aunt this horrible way, and she's really suffering!" and then three years later it's like, "She was crazy!" It's funny how perceptions change, and perceptions have so much to do with what our idea of reality is.

And we are always looking for ways to sum things up that are extremely simple. I think a lot of people want that reflected in their choice of entertainment and in...

And in their politicians, apparently.

Yeah, just maybe!

Because life is complex and baffling and confusing, and I think that's why people love the illusion that "You know what? It can all be figured out. It's really not that difficult."

What are you going to do for us next?

Well, I've written a play and I'm going to Dartmouth to do a workshop with New York Theater Workshop, which I'm very excited about. It's a twisted little look at cultural imperialism as refracted through a relationship between a trust-fund stoner and a male prostitute. It's really fun. And then I'm in the process of adapting a novel, "Towelhead," by Alicia Erian, in the hopes of directing that myself sometime early next year, and I'm going to be, hopefully, creating another TV series for HBO.

Do you know what that will be?

I have some ideas, but it's much too soon to put anything into words, because it could all change.

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