Finally, you know, one cannot succeed on National Public Radio if one plays exclusively to an audience of color. Because there ain't enough colored folk who listen to NPR to register on the ratings radar. The success we've had, we have had clearly because the traditional NPR listener embraced this program. So to that end, my problem is not with the stations who courageously carried the program and gave it a chance. My problem is not with the listeners, who have been empowered by the program, and all of the e-mail that I am receiving from all over the place ... says very clearly that the traditional listener appreciates the program. My problem is with the slow rate of progress that the network is comfortable with.

I'm just not comfortable with that. I think we can do better, and I think we can do better now. I think we need to take this moment where we're hot, where there's buzz around this program, where there's growth that this program is experiencing. We need to build upon that. My granddad said to me all the time, God rest his soul, that insanity is doing the same thing the same way and expecting a different result. So that if we are going to remain stuck on stupid, we never are going to grow this audience to the level that I think it can attain. But we got to have an unorthodox, unusual, creative way of reaching out to a broader audience beyond the traditional listener and they just were not willing to take that journey.

Well, specifically, what should they have done?

The short answer is marketing, promotion, outreach. You'd be amazed at the number of people of color who do not know what NPR is. There are a lot of folk in white America who know what NPR is and just choose not to listen to it. There clearly is another segment that lives and breathes everything NPR. Having said that, NPR is the best at what it does. I love NPR, and this is the most difficult, painful decision I've ever made to leave. I hate the thought of leaving. I dread the thought of leaving. I don't want to leave. But that decision is born of the fact that there is a third category. People who have never heard of NPR. Don't know what it is. Don't know what the letters stand for. Have never tuned in. Don't know that Tavis Smiley, who is -- with humility -- a brand certainly within black America, don't know that my brand is represented on NPR. But if they did, they'd tune in. So there's so much work that needs to be done, that can be done, and after three years of doing most of the heavy lifting, I just wanted a little help.

You've talked about how listeners, at the beginning of the show, would complain that you were too boisterous, or didn't like your laughter, that kind of stuff. Was there a discussion about how much race would be a part of your show -- how black the show could be?

They left those decisions to me. I will say, to NPR's credit, that I was essentially, though I did not bear the title, the executive producer of the show. You almost have to be when the show bears your name. When you're hosting a signature talk show, it takes on so much of your personality. And if the show had failed, I would have said, hey, maybe it was too much of me. But it has succeeded, and so I hope that means that I knew a little something about what I was trying to do here.

So, how have you changed NPR?

I don't know how or, in fact, if I have changed NPR. I hope, and what I hear from the listeners, is that I have changed them. And that's more important to me, quite frankly. That I have made some small contribution in trying to make America a better place by introducing Americans to each other. By challenging people to reexamine the assumptions that they hold. So I hope that I've made the listening audience better. The network says it is going to continue the program and I hope in the coming months and years that they will use all of the resources they have available. I mean, [McDonald's heir] Joan Kroc just gave them $250 million. I hope they'll use all the resources they have at their fingertips to really make some effort to make this network more inclusive.

And I'm not just talking talent. Top to bottom. Top down, this organization needs to be more inclusive. From the people who run it to the on-air talent. To the producers. To the subject matter they cover. To the treatment they give topics. There's a range of things that this network ought to do to make National Public Radio more reflective of the country in which it is established.

There's an old adage that says, "He who breaks through the brush first, gets the thorns." So, I'm leaving with a few thorns that I've picked up here and there, but I can tell you this: I don't know that I made NPR any better, but NPR has sure made me better. I leave NPR not bitter, but better. Better as a person, better as a man, better as a talent, this experience for me -- it's made me feel better about America. I cannot begin to tell you how this program has made me smarter. I've learned so much just hosting the show. I'm going to miss that intellectual vigor, that challenge every day ... I so much appreciate the opportunity and experience that I've had. I just hope that the decision that I've made will, for future generations, be a plus in terms of making this network sound more like America looks.

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