King baby

And yet, it all came crashing down, as you admit. Which artists do you still keep in touch with? Is there anyone you'd like to reconnect with?

I talk to Billy Joel all the time. I probably should call people like Springsteen because I don't think it was his fault that our relationship fell apart. It did, but I was carrying on and saying terrible things. I always admired him. And I don't think it was him. I think it was Landau [Springsteen's longtime manager and producer, Jon Landau]. But I ought to call him.

You say in the book that you refused to take Springsteen's calls because he was doing a concert for Amnesty International, which you saw at the time as anti-Israel. What's your take on today's state of Middle East politics?

There was a time when I had a solution for everything. I don't anymore. But I have a very emotional relationship to Israel. I used to be very friendly with the people at the Simon Wiesenthal Center. I've spoken to them, and they think this Iraq thing was good. You've eliminated one of the implacable enemies of the state and you've intimidated another one called Syria. They're scared shitless. And you've probably also gotten Saudi Arabia to stop funneling money around, because they're scared, so in that sense, it was probably good for the Israelis. Whether it was good for the world, this is beyond me. It certainly didn't work as Bush planned.

Have you seen "The Passion"?

I haven't seen it, but my feeling is that the American Jewish community should just leave it alone. It's Mel Gibson. He has a right to his own opinion. The whole [FCC] thing is getting a little scary. You now have CBS, which was the Tiffany of networks -- it really was, because I was there at the time -- and now look what you have: You have what appears to be "60 Minutes" paying Michael Jackson another million dollars to come on a show he's going to control. Does that sound like "60 Minutes"? Like Edward R. Murrow? There was really a very highbrow approach to the news, sometimes too much; they thought they were the kings of the cock house.

Now, you have Janet Jackson who shows one of her tits and there's this great big fuss about it destroying her career. It's too much. Big deal. She doesn't even have big tits! I'm concerned as a citizen. I don't know any other place where that happens, and some of this is a little scary.

Can you give me an example of someone you've tried to reconcile with since you've become sober?

I went to Clive Davis and apologized for some of the things that happened way back, not recently. And I went to a lot of family people -- not to too many artists, because I think I did OK with artists. It was personal stuff more than business stuff.

Well, there was at least one artist who you clearly didn't get along with -- Paul Simon.

Yeah, I don't like him.

But if only as a businessman, don't you regret losing him? He did some great work after he left CBS -- he sold a lot of records.

No, he didn't. You're wrong. The first record was something that had a song called "Allergies" on it. That went pfft. Then he did "Graceland," and I maintain that it was more the South Africans than him. Then he did one with the Brazilians. Then he did something called "The Capeman" that may have lost all the other money that he earned. Then he did this wonderful movie called "One Trick Pony." You think he's made money on all that?

He's just so self-important. He has a Napoleonic complex. He thinks he is the roving troubadour of the world. And do you think his activities with Art Garfunkel were very loyal? No way.

Your history of loyalty isn't exactly stellar, either. In your book, you make it clear that your times of craziness with drugs and corporate power are over. But what about women?

I have a girlfriend asleep in the other room.

So has anything changed?

I haven't quite figured it out. I know what the driving force was all those years, and it wasn't sex. I mean, that was OK. It was more a search for love. For example, people say, "You slept with 40 million women." It's not true. "You were with hookers." Also not true -- well, maybe twice in my whole life.

But I think I was on a search for -- I hate to talk this way, with this psychodrama -- the unconditional love I didn't get because my mother wanted me to be successful. "We love you if you do; we won't if you don't." So that explains the empty feeling. I think there was also a perfectionist kind of thing. I had to get a 100 on my test. Well, what's getting a 100 with a woman? Making her come, maybe 25 times. I think that was behind it all. And also the whole licentiousness of the time -- sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll. The world was my enabler.

So yeah, it's changed. I am now thinking along a different path -- where's real love? I know that's corny, but it's true.

Hilary Rosen, who went on to head the Recording Industry Association of America, once told a story about entering a meeting where the first thing you said was "Nice tits..."

I still do that. That hasn't changed. Does she have nice tits? I don't remember. I guess they can't be that great if I don't remember them. But that doesn't have anything to do with her tits. It was my own King Baby routine. Part of that outrageousness is a call for attention. It's my own childishness.

Do you think today's record industry is run with more maturity?

I think it's run very badly. I think you have executives who are holding on to their positions at all costs because they're overpaid. Not everyone is in that bag. But look at Tommy Scumola [Mottola]. He was let go. They wouldn't give him a label. That's understandable. I'm told they didn't give him a severance. I don't know that for a fact, but if true, something's wrong. The Japanese don't do that; like American WASPs, they like for things to look right. If they didn't pay him a severance there's something weird, really weird.

But that's not even what I'm talking about; I'm talking about people like Donny Ienner [head of Columbia Records, a Sony label]. They get giant bonuses and they're not letting go so quick. And do you see any new music that's really very different? There's very little. Why?

Well, some would argue that it's a hangover from your era -- when major labels like CBS grew fat on old artists and the move to CDs while forgetting to develop exciting new acts...

So how did all these little artists get big -- like Billy Joel and Bruce? They didn't start out as superstars.

I know what people say, but that's not the truth. The truth is that there were plenty of artists who were developed. Living Color, the Beastie Boys -- there are plenty of artists that were developed, despite what these pundits talk about. But now you don't see that because there's too much money at stake for both the executives and the corporations. Therefore you look through the rearview mirror and you do what you did yesterday. You can't be criticized for doing what you did yesterday. They don't want to take a chance. And radio is not so different. Neither is MTV. So you have copies of copies of copies. You get what you expected.

The great artists have always been different. The real good artists always had something that would make them stand out. Do you think Bob Dylan would get a record contract today? Probably not. It's greed really. And all the record companies are saying, "It's the fault of the Internet. I wish it would go away." Sales are down, what, 8 percent. Not 100 percent.

I don't want to blame the artist but, in part, it's their fault too. How many records do you have with 10 great songs on it? You don't have many. It's two or three produced by fancy producers and the rest is filler. I am not talking about every artist, but a lot of them. I don't condone illegal downloading. I'm a lawyer. But when you have an album and you want a kid to pay $10, $12, and you have two songs that they'll want to listen to, you're encouraging them to download the two songs.

In the rare occasion when something new comes up that people want, they'll buy it. Norah Jones is a good example; it's something different, something out of whack. I'm not even a fan of Norah Jones but the point is still the point -- people will buy it, downloading or not. But everyone is in this wimpy mode. No one wants to take a chance anymore. You get what you expect, relatively boring music, and then they blame the consumers!

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