Site Presented By
Wednesday, Nov 25, 2009
"Fresh Air" host Terry Gross talks about the famous people in her life -- and her strange encounters with Bill O'Reilly.
Sep 30, 2004 | I've long considered Terry Gross to be a national treasure. As host of the most intelligent talk show in America, public radio's "Fresh Air," she emanates such reason and empathy that she routinely succeeds in coaxing the most revealing interviews out of even the cagiest artists and celebrities. Since the show debuted in 1975, Gross has interviewed over 10,000 musicians, actors, writers, comedians, painters, politicians, scientists, tycoons and generals -- a pageant of personalities whose stories provide one of the most vivid chronicles of life in America between Vietnam and Iraq. (Forty of these interviews are collected in Gross' new book, "All I Did Was Ask," from Johnny Cash to John Updike to Chris Rock.)
But there is no cultural oasis left in America that is free of political strife. Gross found this out last September while interviewing Fox News blowhard Bill O'Reilly, an interview he abruptly terminated by denouncing Gross for alleged political bias and then storming off the show. Last week Gross gamely accepted O'Reilly's invitation to come on his own show, where she resolved not to walk out of the studio, even as the permanently aggrieved host again lectured her for being "a victim of the NPR mind-set," whatever that is.
I began our own conversation with Gross, of course, by bringing up the strangely abrasive new man in her life. But we also found time to talk about Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Sean Penn, John Kerry and whether at age 53, a queen of the airwaves, she has any regrets about her life.
If Fox had an ombudsman -- like NPR does -- what would he say about Bill O'Reilly's interview of you last week? Was it fair and balanced?
"All I Did Was Ask: Interviews From 'Fresh Air With Terry Gross'"
By Terry Gross
Hyperion Books
384 pages
Nonfiction
O'Reilly said that I spent my interview with him on "Fresh Air" throwing defamations at him and I didn't let him talk about his book ("Who's Looking Out For You?"). But I actually asked him several questions about the book and his life, and I actually gave him a chance to answer the questions that I asked. But on O'Reilly's show -- and it's always like this, or often like this -- it's really hard to complete a sentence, let alone a paragraph. After a long rant, then he'll look at you and say, "OK, go!" And that's your sign that maybe you can get in two sentences (laughs). But, you know, that's the rules of the show -- I think he calls it "an action show." So that's what it is.
What was he like off-air?
We hardly spoke off-air. I walked in, extended my hand for a handshake, and said, "So we meet at last." Then the interview started, and afterwards I extended my hand again, and he said, "Well I imagine we'll both get a lot of good e-mail out of this one." And it's true -- I certainly have and I'm sure he has too. And I guess that's the point of shows that are intentionally controversial.
Do you think his eruption on your show was spontaneous, or did he plan it ahead of time for effect?
You know I almost asked him that on the show. If I had more time, I would have asked, "Did you plan to come on the show and say this?" It's hard for me to imagine that Mr. Tough Interviewer isn't tough enough to handle the questions I was asking. Let's face it, he wouldn't even respect an interviewer who didn't ask some challenging questions of someone like him. He's someone who prides himself on being tough. If someone doesn't come on his show, he calls them a coward. He makes them "The Most Ridiculous Item of the Day" and calls them a coward. The week before I went on the show Jimmy Carter and Jane Fonda were "Most Ridiculous Items of the Day" because they declined to be on his show. And going along with that, he calls them too cowardly to answer his questions. So how could it be that he couldn't handle my questions?
I thought one of the more interesting parts of your "Fresh Air" interview with him was about his childhood and his tough, hard-drinking father.
I did too! I'm curious about the man, as I am with most of my guests. What made you the kind of person you are, what happened in your life? And I had read his book and I knew some things about his life and I wanted to know more.
The way O'Reilly described his childhood on your show made it seem that his father was an abusive bully. Is that how you would describe O'Reilly himself after your encounters with him?
I don't want to get into characterizing him. I'll just say that he's professionally controversial; that's the way he sees his job. Controversy helps you get ratings, it certainly helps get you attention. And he's very good at what he does, at generating controversy.
O'Reilly has accused you and NPR of being biased. How do you respond to those conservatives who say that Rush Limbaugh and his type might dominate talk radio, but NPR is a bastion of the left?
I would say that some people equate the absence of a conservative agenda with the presence of a liberal agenda. And that's just not true and not fair. NPR doesn't have an agenda, liberal or conservative. Its agenda, particularly in its morning news shows, is to cover the news as fairly and accurately as possible. And I think they succeed. There's not a political agenda that goes along with that -- the agenda is information and education.
Do you think that you have a bias?
On the air?
Yes.
I think we try to be very fair on the air. We're always asking ourselves if we're being fair -- we have constant editorial discussions about how to handle issues.
How about off the air? Which way do you lean politically?
Off the air I have opinions which I don't care to share publicly. Because I have confidence as a professional that I can treat issues fairly. It doesn't mean I don't have opinions -- but I like to leave them out of my public life.
Why do you think the NPR ombudsman felt obliged to issue a critical statement about your O'Reilly interview -- a report that O'Reilly used against you on his show last week?
I assume he felt obliged because he got so many e-mails of complaint. But I should say that we at "Fresh Air" got a lot of e-mail complaints before we even broadcast the interview, because O'Reilly played an excerpt of it on his show the night it was recorded.
You mean he taped the interview too?
Yes, because he recorded his end at the radio station where he broadcasts his show. So we got a lot of e-mails saying I was unfair before the "Fresh Air" show was even broadcast. Which, when you think about it, is pretty ridiculous. Because what did the listeners hear? They heard him telling me that I was being unfair -- that's all they heard! So you have to take the e-mails there with a grain of salt.
PBS, of course, is not the same thing as NPR. But there are signs that, under pressure from the right, public TV is becoming more conservative. As a public radio icon, are you starting to feel those same political pressures at NPR, to tone it down?
I'm not feeling any pressure. I don't work at NPR headquarters, so I can't really say anything about the climate there. But I can say that there's been no pressure on me to change our editorial judgments.
How about the ombudsman's critique -- did that have a chilling effect at all in your office?
No. It caused a lot of introspection. But after that introspection, I totally stand by my interview and strongly disagree with nearly every point that he made. I respect our right to disagree, and I think that's very healthy.
And actually it sparked a very healthy debate within the NPR system. WIthin NPR, we're known as being very civil and cordial and reflective, as interviewers. What do you do when you're interviewing somebody whose style is combative? That is what they do, what they're famous for. So it's going to be a little different than your typical interview with an artist or expert.
And in fact the interview with O'Reilly was pretty darn quiet until he made his speech at the end. I never raised my voice. And sure I asked a few challenging questions. But what did I do? I quoted things he had said about other people. Is that wrong?
