How the world sees Americans

Journalist Mark Hertsgaard traveled the globe gathering opinions about the U.S. He talks about the surprising results.

By Suzy Hansen

Nov 6, 2002 | There's a wonderful moment in Mark Hertsgaard's new book, "The Eagle's Shadow: Why America Fascinates and Infuriates the World," when foreigners' complex feelings about the United States --- why they hate us, why they love us and why it usually isn't either/or -- come into startling focus. A 32-year-old Capetown bus driver happily informs Hertsgaard that every township in South Africa has two street gangs named the Young Americans and the Ugly Americans. The difference? "The Young Americans dress like Americans," the driver, named Malcolm, explained. "The Ugly Americans shoot like Americans."

Of course, those are street gangs. Still, the scene gets to the heart of Hertsgaard's argument: The rest of the world maintains multifaceted and sophisticated perceptions of the world's lone superpower. They readily distinguish between the official face of the American government (who they tend to disagree with and fear) and American people, pop culture and values (which they tend to adore and emulate). Obviously, those who despise the United States make appearances in "The Eagle's Shadow," such as a trio of Egyptian ex-terrorists who will hardly speak to Hertsgaard. Unless it's to sing the praises of Kirk Douglas, that is.

It's the world's superpower, Hertsgaard stresses, that has a childlike understanding of everyone else. And while Hertsgaard spent six months traveling throughout Europe, Africa, the Middle East and Asia gathering impressions of the United States, significant portions of "The Eagle's Shadow" are devoted to explaining recent American history and foreign policy, presumably directed at ill-informed readers, American and foreign. Some might bristle at Hertsgaard's grave assessment of our ignorance, but his central assertion -- that America needs to listen to the rest of the world instead of dictating policy -- is compelling and heartfelt.

Hertsgaard is the author of the highly acclaimed study of the media during the Reagan years, "On Bended Knee," as well as "Earth Odyssey" and "A Day in the Life: The Music and Artistry of the Beatles." Salon spoke to Hertsgaard in New York about why the rest of the world doesn't hate us, why the term "superpower" is obsolete and what the media, as well as President Bush, the CIA and the FBI, knew about Osama bin Laden's plans to attack America before Sept. 11.

You just returned from the European tour for your book. How are people responding to it outside of the United States?

It was released on Sept. 11 in Britain, Holland, Belgium, France and Denmark. The reaction was just overwhelming, especially on the part of the media. I arrived [in England] at 3:30 p.m. and by 4:30 p.m. the major national evening TV news had found me and interviewed me. Then, they called back an hour later and said they wanted to put me on live on the broadcast. From then on, it was just one thing after another: the main national radio news on the BBC, and then their morning show, and then an Op-Ed piece in the Guardian. I did a debate in Antwerp organized by one of the main papers there; it was me, the former prime minister and the former head of NATO. It was a very different reception than I expect in the United States because people there all have real questions and criticisms of the United States. They recognize, especially with everything going on in Iraq, that they've got to puzzle this out.

Were they surprised in any way -- either by the title of your book or what you were discussing in it? Were they excited that someone was addressing these things?

I wouldn't say surprised. The word that comes to mind is "grateful." But I don't want that taken the wrong way. It wasn't something so much about me personally, it was just that some American was acknowledging these contradictions about America and was in a sense doing what I hope we will all do more of. My project for this book is to get America to listen to the rest of the world. The people that I met sensed that here was an American who not only had listened to them and to other foreigners but who could in some way perhaps unlock a few of the mysteries in their own minds about America.

In fact, the original title for this book was "America Explained" and it was originally envisioned for my foreign publishers. This book was envisioned long before Sept. 11 and I did not expect an American publisher to be interested. Traditionally, America has not cared what goes on outside of our borders. I was writing this as I was going around the world, for the rest of the world. Because of the distance and in some ways the opacity of America and America's own lack of interest in them, foreigners find it a hard time to really get into the nub of things.

When you were traveling a few months before Sept. 11, and then afterward, what surprised you the most about what people had to say about America?

The sophistication. I was surprised that people were really able -- and I heard this repeatedly -- to distinguish between America and Americans. There's America in the sense of the official government and the military. That official face of America in the world is not very well liked. And then there's Americans -- the people of the country, the ideals of the country, our popular culture. It was quite a sophisticated view, I thought, considering that they are very far away. Yes, America is in their face all the time, but the part of America that is in their face is that official part. They were able to still say, but you know, we love Americans and we love what you stand for. I heard that over and over again from all different walks of life and all different parts of the world.

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