What was his background?

Hibiscus was from a New York theater family. He came to San Francisco in 1967. He was a very flamboyant character, very theatrical and charismatic. Over a period of time he got connected with people who shared an interest in a flamboyant street presence -- in dressing up, wild costumes and street theater. And on that particular New Year's Eve, a whole group of them got together and -- there are a lot of different stories as to how it actually happened -- apparently Hibiscus had asked Steven Arnold and Sebastian if he could bring a bunch of friends, men in dresses and beards and also women, and do an intermission act at the New Year's show. It wasn't on the program or anything. The Cockettes came up on stage and they did a can-can dance to the Stones' "Honky Tonk Woman." Everybody wound up with half of their clothes off -- it was this wild bacchanal. Nobody had ever seen anything like it. There had never been bearded hippie drag queens before.

In traditional drag performances a man would impersonate a woman, but this was something different.

Right -- this was not about female impersonation. This was what came to be known as gender-fuck, but it had not been done before. And everybody was stoned out of their brains and they had a ball. That's how it happened. That first night was just a one-time idea to do a can-can during intermission.

Then they actually started writing scripts?

No, that took a while. For the early shows, Hibiscus, who was sort of the leader of the group in the sense that he was the charismatic one, would draw people together and come up with themes, but the themes were very loose for the few months the shows were just casual reviews. It was anarchic -- everybody making up their own parts. It was very much about costume, dress-up and a theatrical attitude. Then, over time, the Cockettes started to become a big draw for the Palace and the show started getting a little more structured and developing in ways that had not been anticipated at the beginning. This was great, but it also started to cause problems.

What do you mean?

Hibiscus always had this idea of doing a free theater company. And while he loved the Cockettes, the fact was that they were doing this as part of a commercial endeavor. That was problematic because he believed that if you're going to perform it should only be for free. Hibiscus had a more anarchic vision of what the Cockettes should be.

Did they get salaries?

They got a little money. Everybody has different memories of how much money they got, but it was not much. Sebastian became their manager and the whole issue of money started to stir things up. But the show started getting bigger and better -- more structured, scripted -- and they became quite popular.

What gave you the idea to do the documentary?

It's funny, I never really thought about making documentaries before, but this movie is something that I was born to make. I've always had an interest in the world of drag as subversive, political humor. And for a long time I was interested in trying to do a book about the Angels of Light, the group that Hibiscus started after the Cockettes, but that never worked out. One day, I happened to be sitting at a cafe talking to a friend about the Cockettes and I said, "You know, somebody really needs to make a film about them, because they define such an incredible, historical moment." That's where I started. Then I asked Bill Weber, who is an extraordinary editor, if he might be interested in participating as my partner.

How did you go about raising the money?

Raising money is an ongoing process. First we had to determine whether or not the surviving Cockettes were willing to participate. And from the beginning we got a great reaction from them. They understood that we were serious and that we were going to approach this with integrity, respect and the appropriate amount of irreverence. Secondly, we needed to get a sense of whether or not there was enough material out there to allow a movie to be made. And we very quickly determined that there was -- a lot of material: news articles, photographs, film, audio interviews, etc.

How close is the film to completion?

We've done about 90 percent of our shooting. And we've interviewed a number of Cockettes and other people, like John Waters. A lot of Cockettes have died. Starting in the early '70s there were many deaths from drug overdoses. And then, beginning in the early '80s and going all the way through to the present, there have been a lot of deaths from HIV, AIDS. But, amazingly, there's still a solid core group of key Cockettes who have been interviewed for the film.

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